Ring Ceremonies

Dear Molly & Peter,

I am getting married to a wonderful man who joined the church only a couple years ago. I understand that getting married in the temple is a tremendously sensitive topic for his family. They don't understand why he won't simply get married in what they call a normal way, and then do the sealing stuff later. They figure since we can do it later anyway, choosing to do it now is simply a way to punish them. They even say that we could have the ceremony in a Mormon church, which they feel is a large consolation. He has not budged from wanting to get married in the temple, but he has said that he wants a ring ceremony, and that he would like it to be elaborate, in many ways the ceremony he is describing is like a wedding ceremony, minus the legal commitments. I don't want to take anything away from the sealing, and so this had made me a little uncomfortable. My mother on the other hand is furious. She thinks that a ring ceremony is a mockery of the temple, and that it's unfair to compromise our beliefs. "He's a Mormon now, and his parents have to get used to it." I definitely understand my Mother's point, and honestly all the hoopla with the ring ceremony makes me uncomfortable, but I feel like my fiancee is giving up so much already, what should I do?

Thanks,

Stuck between a ring and a hard place

Molly: Stuck, it sounds to me like you are marrying a good man that loves his family very much yet still puts the gospel first. The counsel from the church allows ring ceremonies, as long as they do not include the exchange of vows, so let him have it. I know that this will upset your mother, but disagreements about the changing of traditions (especially while it's still within church guidelines) are tiny in comparisons to giving up seeing your child get married. You will be richly rewarded by allowing your in laws to feel like they are a bigger part.

Peter: I understand what Molly is saying, and I agree that you shouldn't try and provoke your soon-to-be in laws, but, this is not a wedding between your parents and his parents, it's a wedding between you and him, and you both want to be sealed in the temple. You haven't twisted his arm to get him to this point, so it's totally reasonable to express your concerns about the ring ceremony.

Molly: Marriage is not some kind of large scale negotiation where you stake positions and then try to find common ground.

Peter: No, it's a very intimate agreement, between two people, and you need to be reasonable and come to agreements, but you haven't come to an agreement, because he wants an elaborate ring ceremony and you don't. So you can say something about reigning in the parts that you think are the most elaborate and take away from the sealing earlier in the day.

Molly: If you do that, Stuck, make sure that you never frame the issue as one where he is not being righteous enough, or not following the counsel of the prophet enough. Talk about things in terms of what makes you uncomfortable, and why. I still think that the feelings of his parents should be considered though, and that this is one issue that if you let it go, you will reap rewards in the long run.

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Should She Date in High School to Prepare for College?

Dear Readers,
We had so much fun with Priests this week, we're doing it again with High school dating. Hope you enjoy
~Molly & Peter

Molly and Peter,
I’m 17. I’m going to go to Baylor for their dance therapy program. My question isn’t really about college, it’s more about preparing for school. My parents still won’t let me date date. They’ll let me go out but only in groups, which would be okay, if I was going to BYU (like my parents did) with other kids who didn’t date in high school, but I’m worried that if I go to a different school I will be behind if I don’t go on more dates now. It’s not that I don’t get asked, but I always say no, or try and change it into a group date for my parents. How should I make my parents happy and also prepare socially for college?

Girl Ready, Only Unpermissive Parents


Molly: GROUP, the “Strength of Youth” pamphlet says that “when you begin dating, go in groups or on double dates.“ So your parents were right when you started dating, but you said you’ve been dating for a while now. You’re no longer beginning to date. You are growing up, you have a great sense of what you want to do with your future, and that future should not only include a fascinating career but a social life and relationships.


Peter: From the sound of your letter, GROUP, you’re about to start your senior year. You still have an entire year of living in your parents’ home. The SOY pamphlet may say to do something when you begin dating, but if I remember God told Moses something about respecting parents, and that also seems pretty important to me.


Molly: Of course you have to honor your parents, but that doesn’t mean doing everything they say without talking about it first. You feel like you want to date, and not only does the SOY say what you can’t do in dating it says to date, because it helps you develop friendships and prepare for marriage. It helps you prepare for marriage in more ways than just dating the person you’ll marry. You need to learn how to behave around boys and men, and learn what types you like.


Peter: You can learn how to behave around boys and men (or girls and women for that matter) while out with them in groups. If GROUP’s parents think that beginning to date includes both her junior and senior years of high school, so be it. Trust me, GROUP, you’re not going to go to college unprepared just because you didn’t start single dating at 17. If you go to a non-church school, then you definitely don’t have to worry about knowing less about dating, hardly anyone is dating there anyways. Trust me you’ll be leading the way.

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How Can She Keep Up with Rich Friends?

Dear Peter & Molly,
I need some help. My parents seem to think that I can have a fun social life even though I have absolutely no money. They always ask me why I don't have very many friends, but then when someone asks me to hang out, and I ask them for some money, they tell me to do something that doesn't cost so much. But all my friends aren't doing things that don't cost so much, so I just have to stay home. What should I do?

Sincerely,
No Money

Dear No Money,
Molly and I were wondering how old you are, it might matter.
~Peter

Peter,
I'm 14. I started High school this year.

Money, maybe your parents aren't just trying to help you save money. Since your 14, maybe they just don't want you going out with friends that much.

There's nothing about being with friends at 14 that is wrong, if her parents say it's just money, maybe we should take them at their word.

If the issue really is just money, then maybe you need to find some friends that share less expensive interests.

Or maybe you could just make suggestions of cheap things to do. I don't care how rich your friends are, there is no one who wouldn't enjoy going ice blocking, or playing capture the flag in the park. I know it means more work if you're the one instigating the activities, but then at least you can plan them on your own terms. You could also do activities where people pay different amounts like going to the mall, or painting pottery at those do it yourself stores.

I still think that your parents inhibition to give you money may have more to do with your age, so maybe you can take Molly's idea, but expand on it by inviting your friends over to your house, to play games, watch movies, make food or just talk. With your parents there, they can get to know your friends which may make them more comfortable financing other activities that you do with the same group.

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Satanic Halloween

Dear Peter & Molly,
Okay guys so here's the deal everyone I know who's not Mormon tells me that Halloween is about letting out demons. Obviously I'm like no. But all my Mormon friends still do Halloween. A bunch of us are all going out trick or treating, and then hanging out all night. And so I used to trick or treat as a kid, but now I'm wondering if I even should and what I should say?
Sincerely,
Scared of Halloween

Scared, ever since I can remember there have been ward Halloween parties. I'm not sure what exactly the roots of Halloween is, but it is now a time to dress up, enjoy an evening out, see your neighbors and eat candy. All good stuff. My biggest concern is that you sound a little old to still be going trick or treating.

I don't think that something is okay just because they do it at ward parties, and if Halloween makes you uncomfortable you can always bow out. But don't do avoid Halloween because it's satanic. Halloween comes from a Celtic holiday where they dressed up to scare away spirits, not the other way around. 

The only thing that makes me nervous about Peter's advice is that you don't want to avoid doing things that make you uncomfortable always, because growing up means putting yourself out there and taking risks. 


As far as trick or treating age goes, everyone I know always went one time when they were too old, and they turned out fine. If your friends are still going out I wouldn't worry about it.




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Future In-Law Trouble

Peter and Molly,

I can't stand my sister's fiance. He's from out of state and so he's had to visit our home on a couple of occasions. They met at school, and so we haven't really gotten to see him in his element, he's always on "vacation" when he's here, and boy is he ever. He never offers to help around the house, even things as simple as offering to do his own dishes. Both times he left his room a big mess, with lots of trash that was never cleaned up (which always falls on me, because my sister goes back to school at the same time he leaves.) Also he somehow manages to never bring anything he need, so when he comes we constantly need to run around the house, or town finding shaving cream, deodorant or whatever other necessity he may have forgotten. My sister swears that she loves him and that he's a hard worker, and good to her, but when he's here he always says passive aggressive things to her like after dinner once I said I had eaten too much, and he looked at my sister and said "it's a good thing you never have that problem," but he obviously meant it sarcastically. She chuckled it off. They're not planning on getting married until this November (rather than during a summer or winter break, when I could come without having to find a substitute to teach my classes.) So there's still a little bit of time to scare her away from him, if I should. Should I mention anything to my sis, or just let it go.

Any help appreciated,

Started Inclining Loony

SIL, you can only pick half your in-laws. Scary as it may be your siblings will marry whoever they want, and you're stuck with them. That doesn't mean you have to put up with outright abuse or rudeness, neither of which your potential BIL seems guilty of. He seems to be mostly guilty of taking a little too much vacation while he's off between school, and not explaining the inside jokes of his relationship with his sister to you. Perhaps you should start looking for the good that your sister sees in him before you grow forever embittered at this couple.

While you could certainly have a worse potential in law, I have to disagree with Peter that just because he's not abusive means you should put up with it. He is a guest in your home, and honestly you are just the sister, I'm not sure why after the way he behaved the first time you didn't have him stay somewhere else. It's possible your parents, or a neighbor could help out, and little secret he could always find his own room while he's visiting. If you were her mother I'd understand the pressure to be more hospitable, but even then, you simply need to explain what the standards are, and then if he can't meet them he doesn't stay.

I suppose it's possible to say to family that if you don't do what I tell you to do then you have to rent a motel when you're in town, but that doesn't seem like the best way to develop a good long lasting relationship.

The problem is that without standards set now the relationship will never be good, it will just be bad for SIL instead of for her sister's boyfriend.

I never meant that SIL has to give in especially when it comes to her home, but judging her sister's choice in spouse based on some trash, and grating social behaviors, while he's away from the day to day, isn't wise either.

With the wedding still so far away, however, it may not be the best idea to just admit that your sister is marrying him. You need to be supportive of her, regardless of what her decision ends up being, but that doesn't mean you can't say anything before then. Just make sure that when you bring it up you don't tell her that you dislike him. Help her see the same things you are seeing. Maybe she knows that he's a mess, but she doesn't mind cleaning. The one thing that bugs me the most however was his unkind comment to your sister.

It was an isolated incident, and the sister had no way of understanding what exactly he meant.

It is never okay for a man who is supposed to be the emotional support in a woman's life to imply that she is overweight or can't control her eating. I hate to make this into a big deal, but weight has become such a socially sensitive issue, that if a man can't figure out how to avoid the topic then he is rude, plain and simple. Ask 10 women and all 10 will tell you that his "joke" was hurtful. If that was more than an isolated incident, and you see him regularly make unkind remarks to her, it could be an indication that it may turn into an abusive relationship. If that's the case, you may want to talk her through some questions to determine if there is a real problem. I find the best resource is at thesafespace.org this is a simple list, but they have a lot of great resources around the site.

Of course it also could have just been a joke. Thanks for all the letters. 




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Peter and Molly Advice

Hi! We're Peter and Molly and we're going to be answering your questions on all sorts of subjects. This column is specifically for members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints or Mormons. More specifically the column looks for ways to apply our faith into the day to day decisions we all have to make. What makes our advice column unique is that there are two of us. We agree on lots of things, like the Church is true and well okay, maybe not a lot of things, but that's what makes us great, and what makes the advice helpful. We've started by asking our friends to send us anonymous letters, to get us started, but we'd love to hear from everyone else as well. Our e-mail is PeterMollyAdvice@gmail.com. Hope to hear from you soon!

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